An Interview With Richard Firsten

conducted by Melissa D. Sheppard (FIU TESOL graduate student)

March 2003

 

    

     Richard Firsten has been in the field of TESOL for 30 years. He has been the head Instructor in the intensive English program at Barry University for 5 years, the Associate Director of the English Language Institute at FIU for 4 years, and an ESOL/VESOL instructor in adult education with Miami-Dade County Public Schools for 16 years. Firsten has had 12 books published and has been an adjunct instructor in the TESOL master's programs at FIU, FAU, and the U of M. He is also a contributing editor of TESOL Matters.

 

 

M:   What is your own second language learning experience and how has your learning experience influenced your teaching methods?

      

R:   I seem to have a natural ability to learn languages; it must be genetic, because my maternal grandfather had that same ability. I grew up speaking English and Yiddish. I learned conversational Spanish, Italian, and Russian from friends' families as I was growing up and then continued learning them formally in high school and college. I also learned a great deal of Latin in college. Through friends in later years and various business trips, I've also picked up a good deal of Portuguese.

      

     To broaden my linguistic knowledge and get away from European languages so I would have a better appreciation of how it is to learn other kinds of languages, I've also learned to speak some conversational Arabic and read and write the language as much as I know of it, I've dabbled in Korean, and I've learned some basic Middle Kingdom Egyptian and learned to read and write a good number of hieroglyphs.

      

     Being exposed to so many languages has given me tremendous insight into what the experience is to learn another language. This, of course, has influenced my teaching methodology. I rely much more on teaching the spoken language and dealing with listening comprehension issues at the lower levels and only target the written language to a great extent once students have reached a real intermediate level. I've also made it a point never to have students "study" a language. You "study" algebra and world history and chemistry; you shouldn't "study" a language either you learn it, or you don't.

      

     I've also realized over the years that even those students who remain rather quiet in class can still be learning the target language just as much as those students who aren't afraid to speak it even if they make lots of errors. I've learned never to force students to participate in oral work; that will come in time if the students find themselves in a setting where the target language is the one in use.

 

M:   What drew you to the field of TESOL? Also, how do you envision the future of TESOL?

 

R:   After graduating from college, I entered the Peace Corps, something which was in vogue back in the late 1960s. Even though I spoke four languages quite well, I had never thought of teaching language for a living. The Peace Corps opened my eyes to how much I did enjoy that pursuit. I was trained to teach EFL (English as a Foreign Language) to South Koreans, and realized quite early on that it was just the sort of career I would enjoy having during my working life.

 

     As to the future of TESOL, I see it as a mixed bag. With more and more states getting on the bandwagon of "workforce readiness," the emphasis is on preparing immigrants to work whether or not their English skills

 are adequate. It's really quite a dismal situation right now, especially in the state of Florida, where lawmakers who have no idea of the educational needs of students come up with plans that are outrageously erroneous, yet must be followed according to state law. I, like so many of my colleagues, am totally disappointed with the way ESOL in Florida has evolved. We don't teach English anymore, per se; we teach workforce readiness benchmarks and have checklists that must be completed. They have very little to do with language learning, but focus on workforce behaviors, some of which are quite absurd.

      

     I don't think things have gotten this bad yet in other parts of the U.S., so it seems that TESOL is still doing the job it was meant to do, namely, teaching English, American customs, American attitudes, and survival skills. I hope places that continue to teach these skills remain strong and keep flourishing, unlike the situation here in Florida.

      

     There will always be a ne

◊ed for good ESOL teachers in this country, and now that the field is being more and more recognized as a legitimate discipline which wasn't always the case I am confident that TESOL will keep developing and growing more professional as time goes by.

 

M:   As someone with experience both learning and teaching languages, what do you feel is the best way to learn a new language?

 

R:   Okay, you asked for it. Although not the most practical, the best way to learn a new language is to be immersed in it. That means going for a long spell to the country where the language is spoken. It also could mean finding yourself a boyfriend or girlfriend who speaks that language. Talk about incentive!

 

M:   You have an extensive background teaching TESOL courses at the university level with many of your students being public school teachers. In terms of public school education (K-12), what do you feel is the main function of ESOL teachers (i.e. fluent conversational skills, mastery of the written language)?

      

R:   The public school ESOL teacher is really responsible for all four language skills as they're usually segregated artificially by intensive English programs, namely, listening, speaking, reading, and writing. Of course, the older the students are, the more emphasis has to be given to reading and writing skills.

 

M:   Bilingual education has come under fire, as several states have begun attempts to ban it. Why do you feel that bilingual education has gotten such negative attention?

 

R:   Well, here's a political hot potato if ever there was one. To begin with, many programs that claimed to be bilingual really weren't. They tended to use much more of the L1 than the L2, and when outsiders got wind of this, they weren't very pleased. Moreover, the immigrant parents of many students in these so-called bilingual programs were upset because they felt their children weren't learning English rapidly enough. They were also concerned that their children's teachers, who weren't native speakers for the most part, didn't have the ability to teach English properly. There's still a lot of debate about this issue.

   

     When a bilingual program is truly bilingual, it can be a marvelous opportunity for all students to learn both languages very well. It can be incredibly stimulating and get students to develop their cognitive abilities much faster even in other areas. We don't have time or space here to go into what a truly bilingual program should be, but there are many models out there for any reader who's interested in finding out.

   

     The other reason that bilingual programs have gotten such a bad rap is that so many people feel threatened that English will not remain the predominant language of the U.S. Whether or not their fears are justified isn't the point; just having this fear can make people feel very anti-bilingualism. It's really too bad.

 

 

M:   What prompted you, as a teacher, to write The ELT Grammar Book?

      

R:   Over the years, I have taught every course listed in the TESOL master's programs at FIU, the U of M, and FAU. The students in my classes on ESOL methods and grammar for ESOL instructors were always so enthused by the information I presented that I kept hearing from them, "So when are you going to write the book?" Well, I finally decided I should take all of my material and write the book.

      

     It's been a true labor of love. I knew from the outset that one doesn't get rich on the royalties from teacher reference books, but that's not why I set about writing The ELT Grammar Book. I'm just very gratified that I've had the opportunity to make what others in the field are calling a significant contribution to TESOL.

 

M:   Do you have any plans to write other teacher-friendly textbooks?

      

R:   I hope to be involved in a second edition of The ELT Grammar Book whenever that time should come, and I'd like to keep writing materials for ESOL students.

      

     At the moment, I'm involved in co-authoring four workbooks to go with a four-level basal series called Contemporary English. I'm also involved in writing test items and grammatical explanations for the TOEIC (Test of English for International Communications), which is basically like the TOEFL, only geared to international business people learning English rather than university-bound students.

      

     I also hope to continue informative columns for teachers in which I answer any and all grammar questions they may send in. I have an ongoing column in TESOL Matters and another in ESL Magazine.

 

M:   Do you think that there is a need for more technological resources for ESOL students and teachers? An

sd are there any such resources currently available that are effective?

 

R:   It goes without saying that there will always be a need for more technological resources in education and in ESOL in particular. CAL (Computer Assisted Learning) has developed into a very valuable tool for language teaching and learning. There are more and more high quality, pedagogically sound applications that can be purchased with site licenses for teaching ESOL as well as many other languages.

      

     The annual International TESOL Convention is coming up the week of March 24 and the numbers of exhibitors with marvelous computer applications to enhance language learning are astounding. I myself am lucky enough to have just received 16 new computers in my classroom and I plan to spend a lot of time at the convention checking out the software that would be most helpful to my students.